Vincent nods. "You had two things I wanted to respond to. Both are detailed on their own, so bear with me." The summary wasn't intended to remain vague either way. "Let's talk about me, first."
Words no one ever thought they would hear coming out of Vincent Valentine.
"I want to ask you if anyone ever spoke to you about WEAPONs. Or mentioned Omega and Chaos in your hearing."
"Not to me, but they came up now and again amongst some of the staff." He knew what they were and what they were for, as a natural defense system. Where they slept and what they were doing eluded, of course. "If someone named them they didn't mention it."
"Mm." Well, good enough to understand the concept. "Your mother... your human mother, Lucrecia, based her thesis on the existence of WEAPONs mentioned in the writing of the Ancients. Omega and Chaos. Two entities bound to appear together if the planet became so injured that it was on the verge of dying. You could call it a mechanism for self-preservation. Should such a catastrophe occur, Chaos would emerge to return all life to the Planet. Omega would form, gather the Lifestream and take off with it to the stars to find another world. That way, life would continue. The planet left behind would slowly crumble, unable to sustain itself."
Vincent turns his head away to look at the river, though he's soon to close his eyes. Talking about such things in a serene place like this...
"When Hojo conducted his experiments on my body, it was only a partial success. I think I mentioned this." Ice cream again. "My body or mind... or both would have eventually degraded. Lucrecia found out what he had done and tried to find a way to save me. She used her research and a discovery of the Chaos element to stabilize my body. But with it, I was inadvertently made into a host for Chaos."
Opening his eyes, he looks down at the palm of a hand he raises. "...More like we were one and the same, even if Chaos, the WEAPON, would also exist on its own. That was the source of the power I mentioned."
A thesis made a claim that was plausable but needed proof. Chaos certainly existed then, which implied but did not guarantee the existence of Omega. Humans slapping labels on things had gone awry before. "That sounds like what my future self was intending to do. What Mother Jenova does."
With of course, a less selfish motivation. Or predatory one.
"How does a biological being, even with the interference of modern science, contain something as vast as a WEAPON is supposed to be? They'd been cited as building sized."
Well it is selfish in the sense of self-preservation. And the need to destroy all life to move it somewhere else. But it's a planetary level reaction so... who can really say? It just sucks to be living at the time.
And Vincent speaks as if both Chaos and Omega are an absolute, verifiable fact. So if Chaos was within him...
"You're not wrong. It's possible Sephiroth had discovered this while he was in the Lifestream and used it to his advantage. As to what Jenova does..." Hmm. "There's no denying parallels. But a lot of what we know about the Calamity was from theory and ancient texts. Or stories passed down."
Vincent honestly can't say for sure. What Sephiroth earns is a slightly bemused look at the question as the gunman looks over abruptly and opens his eyes, only to blink a few times.
"When I transform, I don't keep the same mass." That galian beast that looks like a bipedal behemoth? It's as heavy as it looks despite it being at least twice Vincent's size. "WEAPONs in general are larger than buildings. My form as Chaos was never much larger than my current."
It certainly was 'larger' but not a building. Definitely bigger than a breadbox.
"Hmph. I never really thought about it. Could be because of its purpose. Might have been unique."
You know. Like a terrier. Having to go down into small places, get those last dregs of life.
How can people not wonder these things. Especially if it was hardwired into being part of him, Vincent should have absolutely been wondering why he wasn't a kaiju. "How would a creature the size of a man expediently erase all life on a planet? By the time you could physically reach every corner to find every shred of life, centuries would pass."
Then again, WEAPON.
There are times, now and again, where Sephiroth's parentage is perfectly, glaringly obvious, physical traits aside. This was NOT the point Vincent was pursuing.
"Have you observed Omega, or other WEAPONS? ..No, you mentioned before there were a couple." Attacked Midgar, lurked off Junon, he'd glossed over it at the time as it wasn't terribly important to the long story Vincent was telling.
"Chaos is a WEAPON, whatever its size," Vincent answers somberly. "And... how long does it take a planet to die?" The scale can be completely different from what a human might normally expect. Even Meteor wouldn't have destroyed the planet right away.
Vincent had other things to worry about than why he wasn't the size of other weapons when he called on Chaos's power. Why wasn't so important as the relief when he could control it. The man shakes his head, trying to draw the conversation back to the present.
"Yeah. Five appeared during our pursuit of Sephiroth. ...Omega was artificially summoned three years later. I was able to use Chaos to stop the WEAPON before it left the planet. That was when Chaos returned to the planet. With Omega."
"Depends on what you hit it with." It comes with the slow thoughtfulness of someone actually thinking about that. Sephiroth had no intention of trying, but if it's purely hypothetical-- "A supernova could manage it quickly, I think."
But how would anyone generate a supernova?
Or a meteor. Was there a materia for that too?
The thought is dismissed before it can go further. "...If Chaos and Omega both return to stasis, and Chaos was keeping you intact, why are you still alive?" For a given meaning of the word 'alive'.
"Sephiroth." The tone perfectly manages the inflection of 'not the point'. He lets out a heavy sigh and shakes his head. Yeah, the kid really was like his parents. Hell, even like Vincent's dad, probably.
Moving on though is a mixed blessing. Again the former Turk shakes his head before explaining. "Chaos merging with me was an unintended side-effect... consequence of what was done to make sure I survived." Or so it was mentioned in notes found, for all she expressed her sorrow and apologized so, so many times in visions, dreams and nightmares. Though that's not all she was apologizing for.
Nothing worked out the way it was intended.
"She used a... naturally occurring element, something created by the Lifestream like mako or materia. Dark and chaotic in nature, it is... what Chaos was born from." There is a short pause. "...It was used in the birth of Nero the Sable, too."
Yet another shake of his head. "I've only been able to piece together what was done to me from data I found. And traces Lucrecia left behind as messages. Hojo was probably right when he claimed his experiments made my body unable to age or die. The mention of degeneration..." Vincent shrugs. How that fits in with 'not aging or dying' is certainly unclear. Those details are vague.
"...I wasn't always conscious during the procedures or in between. But... probably because of that, I was able to hold on. Whatever Lucrecia did in the end before she disappeared stabilized me. But opened the way for Chaos."
Sephiroth probably understands very well why Vincent is glossing over the details he does remember of the procedures. 'Not always conscious' does mean there were times he was and probably felt every bit of the disorientation and pain already implied.
"That doesn't answer the question. If Chaos was sustaining you, how are you still alive without it?"
This doesn't make the rest of it irrelevant. He knows what being under the care of Hojo meant, as profoundly as any of the other victims could. The only difference was Hojo's vested interest in seeing him survive, so there was always a plethora of medical equipment and healing materia onhand to make certain if his unnatural regeneration failed that he still wouldn't die, a luxury not afforded the rest of the samples.
"I can only tell you what I know. Lucrecia used the same element Chaos was birthed from in her work to save me. That invited Chaos, but that doesn't mean it was intended to be part of the solution."
Just that... the way was opened for Vincent to host it.
"There's also what Hojo did. While he didn't succeed in what his goal was, it still left me with a durable body. The... element, the chaos energy is still present. But Chaos itself wasn't needed to sustain me. And if there's more to it than that... I don't know."
What he does know is that he did a swan dive into Omega, Chaos and Omega returned to the Planet and he... well, he emerged whole again.
Now, Vincent does look a little uncomfortable. It's been tricky to talk about, trickier still to be confronted with the holes in what he still doesn't know about everything that's been done to him. Sure he's discovered little by little, sometimes at the cost of a lot of pain. But it seems like a drop in the bucket in the face of Sephiroth's probing questions.
It's ... not something he's ever going to get an answer to, if Vincent doesn't already know. While he still certainly wanted to, he also was not interested in pursuing it endlessly; in the end it wasn't really important.
"It doesn't matter." Idle curiosity, and little else. "Is a WEAPON capable of killing me in a permanent fashion? I don't recall anyone mentioning they were effective."
"There was never a known encounter between the WEAPONs and Sephiroth. When they appeared, he was hidden under a barrier. Humanity became the primary targets and the combined efforts of Shinra and our group ended their threat. In most circumstances, WEAPONs are nothing more than beasts. A threat to planet was a threat."
It didn't matter if it was Sephiroth's actions that had summoned them forth.
"Chaos was designed to destroy all life and return it to the Lifestream," Vincent responds after a short pause. "If there was a weapon that could kill Sephiroth permanently, it would be the most likely to succeed. But there's no way to be sure."
Without... well, killing Sephiroth outside of Folkmore.
"That does sound like a no." It's quiet, very quiet. A beast wasn't going to be able to stop a trained SOLDIER on par with someone like Cloud. "Pointless, I suppose. Nothing here affects there, in that fashion."
Chaos and Omega, it seemed, were tangents. "I'm sure if it became necessary, people would line up for the chance to subdue a violent and dangerous opponent. Perhaps even Thirteen herself." What did he want out of a bond?
Nothing it could offer. He didn't need a friendly hand, he needed a leash and a muzzle.
When the guard hound makes a reappearance in a slow roil of black smoke, it's close enough to settle at Sephiroth's side, not..quite touching.
"If.. if I go mad here. If I fully become a monster." His gaze turns towards the river, and its glittering banks. "Find out why. Use this link for that. Was it inevitable? Or was I pushed? And if it was forced." Maybe it was inevitable and nothing could be done. Maybe it was his fate all along.
But if not. "A Familiar bond will let you find me. What I want, Mr. Valentine." Only then does he actually look at the red clad Turk, somber. "Is for you to bring me the ones who wronged me. And then leave them to face what they made. No matter who it is."
"Mm. Who knows. Junon's canon was enough to take out one. And modified it took out Diamond WEAPON." ...Hah, 'enough'. Something at point blank or a shot that drained eight mako reactors temporarily to make the shot. Vincent had mentioned at least Diamond WEAPON's fate in his original retelling. The others hadn't been critical; they had not been directly involved other than being released.
Does Sephiroth's power rival a direct shot from either versions of the canon? Could he endure a shot similar to the strength of Sister Ray? ...Let's hope they never have to really find that out. Neither Chaos or Omega alone had any more intelligence than those WEAPONS. It had been their connection and embodiment with the wills of Vincent Valentine and then Weiss and Nero, that had given them any sentience that would be recognized as such. And that probably made the Chaos slumbering in the Vincent of his world a threat. At least, an unknown.
Now that the teen knows, it's no doubt he'll remember if things go wrong. But that is a problem for the future that they're hoping, on some level, to prevent.
What do you want from the bond. Though Vincent had been glancing out at the river, when Sephiroth again finally brings up the potential for future madness, he turns his entire focus on the silver haired youth. The request is not entirely met with surprise. Yet there's a brief hesitation, to think over what those words would mean. Vincent is far from reluctant. However there are a great many factors to consider. Finding the truth of that madness and there are plenty of elements in Folkmore alien to their world that could trigger it.
"I will do everything I can to find out why." Through the bond, though all his skills as a former Turk. And whatever help he can gather from others. There's then a slow nod, though he offers a quiet question.
"If Thirteen is the case. Or if she brings Lucrecia here... Gast or Hojo." Well at least two of those Vincent would have no problem throwing to the silver wolf god. The third.... "Should I bring them as well?"
And... well, if he's bringing them, he'll already be there won't he?
"I don't mean by virtue of my creation, but recent action. My father, certainly. He'll want to see the culmination of all his efforts, after all." And Hojo absolutely would happily help it along if he thought it'd get interesting results, he already knew that. "The difference between putting a gun on a counter, and picking it up and shooting someone."
He was very focused in that particular wish for retaliation. If someone went out of their way to provoke it.. "I don't get the impression even trying to destroy the world that I become any less intelligent, or truly feral. But positive punishment may be an effective deterrent even if I am aware it's what's happening, to at least prevent rampant havoc." Emotional influence could be a powerful thing. If he found pleasure in the kill, souring that joy would make it less appealing.
"Hmph," Vincent answers in regard to bringing Hojo. Either way that will definitely happen. And if Sephiroth doesn't kill him... Well, Vincent won't be put out at all doing it again. But reminder of the teen's father does bring a half-lidded regard of speculation from Vincent. It reminds him of the earlier insinuation about what the young man had experienced during that 'trial'.
"Not that I'm aware." Frankly, Vincent wasn't sure if the arrogance had changed. What Sephiroth had been brought up believing... seeing out of those around him compared to his own power... "I can't make any promises that I'd succeed if it turned out to be Thirteen in the end. But that wouldn't stop me from trying. Anyone else... I'll manage somehow."
The former Turk's eyes are now opened fully. He's studying Sephiroth carefully as he remarks about the use of emotional manipulations. "That.... you want me to use the bond to manipulate your reaction to certain actions?" The question is probably as neutrally spoken as Vincent can manage and yet it's still clear he's not comfortable with the idea.
"That... did Hojo... the scientists, use that on you? That how you learned it?" Very clear.
Until Cloud, nothing's ever really challenged him. He knew he was stronger, faster, more durable than anything anyone could hope to throw at him. It's a precarious balance between utter assurance at his superiority and also being certain he was worthless if he couldn't do the one thing he was made for.
"You won't be able to manage direct control, like I can my eventual puppets. That wouldn't be 'supporting a legend', and presumably is beyond the reach of such a tether." Messing with his emotions was not ideal but could be used to try to curb the worst.
Would he even take pleasure in slaughtering people without any chance of fighting him? Or was it merely the satisfaction an exterminator feels on eradicating a nest of vermin?
The idea that Hojo or the others COULD do such a thing to him earns a blank look. "No, of course not." They did, but through different means than what he's intending here. Enough reinforcement for what they wanted, and he no longer resisted. He hadn't needed to be bound to a table since he was young, no matter what they did. "It's standard procedure for unruly specimens when positive reinforcement fails. I've watched it countless times. SOme species simply don't react to anything else."
So... yes, then, whether or not it was the exact same method. Of course it doesn't surprise him. It hurts that Sephiroth would think nothing of having Vincent use it on him. There is some terrible rationale present given the stakes. It turns the stomach to consider using it on the teenager who's already suffered that and more at the hands of scientists, so much so that he sees nothing different between himself and the specimens in cages still, even months apart from Shinra.
It also hurts because Vincent knows he's probably capable of setting aside the morals and doing it.
"I'm not thrilled that you're asking me to do something that even the scientists at the company or Hojo might not have done," Vincent finally begins. There's a trace of bitterness; but he could be forgiven for not liking it in that context. As to the way the teen devalues his worth as a person and simply implies Vincent should just regard it as standard procedure for an unruly specimen. But he won't bring that up now.
"But... explain further how you want it used. I don't want anything to hinder what you have to do when you return to your time." So far, Sephiroth has only generalized. So the former Turk can't really be blamed for wanting specifics under those conditions.
Dog and boy share a brief look. "You ... offered to do just that a few minutes ago." His tone is slow and cautious, unsure suddenly what the right answer is supposed to be. Was he supposed to interpret the mention of Familiars calming Legend emotions, and exerting influence over them, in some other way?
Was he supposed to refuse, and be insulted at its implication? "Was this a test?" He must have failed it.
There is a short pause. When Vincent's eyes close a moment, there is actually tension. And he brings his left hand, gauntlet and all, to cup his face. Hide it.
"Damn it." ...What? While Vincent doesn't quite drag his hand down his face - for obvious reasons- it's slowly pulled downward and away to drop to his knees again. He exhales to steady himself and turns to face the pair.
"I did. But this wasn't a test. What you just said makes me realize it was no better than how the scientists treated you your entire life." His expression shows muted regret and resignation; probably going a lot deeper.
"Worse, because I know you accept so many things without question because of that abuse. Even if it sounds reasonable, the rational thing to do."
The methods Hojo and his assistants used to gain Sephiroth's unquestioning compliance when he was much, much younger than his already young age almost certainly lined up. Most living things responded well to operant conditioning.
"...It is the reasonable thing to do, or you wouldn't have suggested it to begin with." How much of the objection he really understands is questionable.
But he does know an offer was made, and it was sensible at the time. Still was, even after a review of it. "If it was ... some form of abuse, which I question, a tool is a tool, no matter who's using it before you do. You can't tame a monster with friendship and love." They can however be occasionally beaten into submission!
"I wanted to provide a way to balance the unnatural strength of your emotions caused by the Role Thirteen assigned to you. That... was reasonable," Vincent responds slowly. "...Probably."
Probably, since it was balancing out something that was being forced on Sephiroth. But it had opened a door.
"The part that wasn't right, no matter how it sounds, was to suggest it be used for anything else. To control your emotions or your actions based on those emotions. You've been conditioned to believe that. To think it's normal."
Though... it's true Vincent is unclear if even that would be something that gets through to the teen. So... he proffers a question.
"...If you don't believe me, then... when you were experiencing the Trial in the fog, what stopped you from helping Hojo's victim?
"Why wouldn't it be right?" It's ticking into dangerous territory, by the way he's begun once more muting any obvious emotional response. It wouldn't stop him from feeling it, but it would hide the obvious weakness. "Shooting me is acceptable, but keeping me alive isn't? Turning a WEAPON on me is something you're willing to consider, but not an influence I not only consented to but requested?"
It sounds like it's merely a puzzled question, and there's no way to be sure if it is just confusion or if something uglier undercurrents it just by looking at Sephiroth.
But there's a slow lash of the long black tentacle between the guard hound's stiff shoulders, back and forth like a pendulum, and a deep, reverberating gutteral snarl at Vincent's final question as Sephiroth jerks himself back to his feet in one too-fast motion.
"If you don't actually want to help then just say so and stop playing with me. This isn't a game." The calming, euphoric effects of this stretch of river only go so far against the volatile temperament of a teenager as he turns on one booted heel and stalks away - not closer to Exile at least.
More slowly Vincent rises, but rise he does to stand up and stride to follow. He has quite an advantage there with long legs. Sephiroth still needs quite a few years.
"Sephiroth. I'm trying to help you!" He might not be directly behind the boy but the former Turk's voice is clear and holds enough emphasis to suggest the commanding exclamation. "I'm asking because it's not a game. Whatever happened during that Trial... what do you think will happen when you go back home and try to kill Hojo?"
He'll stop if the teen stops. But he can't afford to let Sephiroth too get too far away.
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momijizukamori
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Date: 2024-09-15 08:32 pm (UTC)Words no one ever thought they would hear coming out of Vincent Valentine.
"I want to ask you if anyone ever spoke to you about WEAPONs. Or mentioned Omega and Chaos in your hearing."
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Date: 2024-09-15 08:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2024-09-15 08:49 pm (UTC)Vincent turns his head away to look at the river, though he's soon to close his eyes. Talking about such things in a serene place like this...
"When Hojo conducted his experiments on my body, it was only a partial success. I think I mentioned this." Ice cream again. "My body or mind... or both would have eventually degraded. Lucrecia found out what he had done and tried to find a way to save me. She used her research and a discovery of the Chaos element to stabilize my body. But with it, I was inadvertently made into a host for Chaos."
Opening his eyes, he looks down at the palm of a hand he raises. "...More like we were one and the same, even if Chaos, the WEAPON, would also exist on its own. That was the source of the power I mentioned."
no subject
Date: 2024-09-15 08:56 pm (UTC)With of course, a less selfish motivation. Or predatory one.
"How does a biological being, even with the interference of modern science, contain something as vast as a WEAPON is supposed to be? They'd been cited as building sized."
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Date: 2024-09-15 09:10 pm (UTC)And Vincent speaks as if both Chaos and Omega are an absolute, verifiable fact. So if Chaos was within him...
"You're not wrong. It's possible Sephiroth had discovered this while he was in the Lifestream and used it to his advantage. As to what Jenova does..." Hmm. "There's no denying parallels. But a lot of what we know about the Calamity was from theory and ancient texts. Or stories passed down."
Vincent honestly can't say for sure. What Sephiroth earns is a slightly bemused look at the question as the gunman looks over abruptly and opens his eyes, only to blink a few times.
"When I transform, I don't keep the same mass." That galian beast that looks like a bipedal behemoth? It's as heavy as it looks despite it being at least twice Vincent's size. "WEAPONs in general are larger than buildings. My form as Chaos was never much larger than my current."
It certainly was 'larger' but not a building. Definitely bigger than a breadbox.
"Hmph. I never really thought about it. Could be because of its purpose. Might have been unique."
You know. Like a terrier. Having to go down into small places, get those last dregs of life.
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Date: 2024-09-15 09:20 pm (UTC)Then again, WEAPON.
There are times, now and again, where Sephiroth's parentage is perfectly, glaringly obvious, physical traits aside. This was NOT the point Vincent was pursuing.
"Have you observed Omega, or other WEAPONS? ..No, you mentioned before there were a couple." Attacked Midgar, lurked off Junon, he'd glossed over it at the time as it wasn't terribly important to the long story Vincent was telling.
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Date: 2024-09-15 09:39 pm (UTC)Vincent had other things to worry about than why he wasn't the size of other weapons when he called on Chaos's power. Why wasn't so important as the relief when he could control it. The man shakes his head, trying to draw the conversation back to the present.
"Yeah. Five appeared during our pursuit of Sephiroth. ...Omega was artificially summoned three years later. I was able to use Chaos to stop the WEAPON before it left the planet. That was when Chaos returned to the planet. With Omega."
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Date: 2024-09-15 09:46 pm (UTC)But how would anyone generate a supernova?
Or a meteor. Was there a materia for that too?
The thought is dismissed before it can go further. "...If Chaos and Omega both return to stasis, and Chaos was keeping you intact, why are you still alive?" For a given meaning of the word 'alive'.
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Date: 2024-09-15 10:05 pm (UTC)Moving on though is a mixed blessing. Again the former Turk shakes his head before explaining. "Chaos merging with me was an unintended side-effect... consequence of what was done to make sure I survived." Or so it was mentioned in notes found, for all she expressed her sorrow and apologized so, so many times in visions, dreams and nightmares. Though that's not all she was apologizing for.
Nothing worked out the way it was intended.
"She used a... naturally occurring element, something created by the Lifestream like mako or materia. Dark and chaotic in nature, it is... what Chaos was born from." There is a short pause. "...It was used in the birth of Nero the Sable, too."
Yet another shake of his head. "I've only been able to piece together what was done to me from data I found. And traces Lucrecia left behind as messages. Hojo was probably right when he claimed his experiments made my body unable to age or die. The mention of degeneration..." Vincent shrugs. How that fits in with 'not aging or dying' is certainly unclear. Those details are vague.
"...I wasn't always conscious during the procedures or in between. But... probably because of that, I was able to hold on. Whatever Lucrecia did in the end before she disappeared stabilized me. But opened the way for Chaos."
Sephiroth probably understands very well why Vincent is glossing over the details he does remember of the procedures. 'Not always conscious' does mean there were times he was and probably felt every bit of the disorientation and pain already implied.
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Date: 2024-09-15 10:42 pm (UTC)This doesn't make the rest of it irrelevant. He knows what being under the care of Hojo meant, as profoundly as any of the other victims could. The only difference was Hojo's vested interest in seeing him survive, so there was always a plethora of medical equipment and healing materia onhand to make certain if his unnatural regeneration failed that he still wouldn't die, a luxury not afforded the rest of the samples.
Not remembering all of it was a mercy.
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Date: 2024-09-15 10:59 pm (UTC)Just that... the way was opened for Vincent to host it.
"There's also what Hojo did. While he didn't succeed in what his goal was, it still left me with a durable body. The... element, the chaos energy is still present. But Chaos itself wasn't needed to sustain me. And if there's more to it than that... I don't know."
What he does know is that he did a swan dive into Omega, Chaos and Omega returned to the Planet and he... well, he emerged whole again.
Now, Vincent does look a little uncomfortable. It's been tricky to talk about, trickier still to be confronted with the holes in what he still doesn't know about everything that's been done to him. Sure he's discovered little by little, sometimes at the cost of a lot of pain. But it seems like a drop in the bucket in the face of Sephiroth's probing questions.
"Sorry."
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Date: 2024-09-16 09:45 pm (UTC)"It doesn't matter." Idle curiosity, and little else. "Is a WEAPON capable of killing me in a permanent fashion? I don't recall anyone mentioning they were effective."
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Date: 2024-09-16 11:51 pm (UTC)It didn't matter if it was Sephiroth's actions that had summoned them forth.
"Chaos was designed to destroy all life and return it to the Lifestream," Vincent responds after a short pause. "If there was a weapon that could kill Sephiroth permanently, it would be the most likely to succeed. But there's no way to be sure."
Without... well, killing Sephiroth outside of Folkmore.
no subject
Date: 2024-09-17 12:39 am (UTC)Chaos and Omega, it seemed, were tangents. "I'm sure if it became necessary, people would line up for the chance to subdue a violent and dangerous opponent. Perhaps even Thirteen herself." What did he want out of a bond?
Nothing it could offer. He didn't need a friendly hand, he needed a leash and a muzzle.
When the guard hound makes a reappearance in a slow roil of black smoke, it's close enough to settle at Sephiroth's side, not..quite touching.
"If.. if I go mad here. If I fully become a monster." His gaze turns towards the river, and its glittering banks. "Find out why. Use this link for that. Was it inevitable? Or was I pushed? And if it was forced." Maybe it was inevitable and nothing could be done. Maybe it was his fate all along.
But if not. "A Familiar bond will let you find me. What I want, Mr. Valentine." Only then does he actually look at the red clad Turk, somber. "Is for you to bring me the ones who wronged me. And then leave them to face what they made. No matter who it is."
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Date: 2024-09-17 01:35 am (UTC)Does Sephiroth's power rival a direct shot from either versions of the canon? Could he endure a shot similar to the strength of Sister Ray? ...Let's hope they never have to really find that out. Neither Chaos or Omega alone had any more intelligence than those WEAPONS. It had been their connection and embodiment with the wills of Vincent Valentine and then Weiss and Nero, that had given them any sentience that would be recognized as such. And that probably made the Chaos slumbering in the Vincent of his world a threat. At least, an unknown.
Now that the teen knows, it's no doubt he'll remember if things go wrong. But that is a problem for the future that they're hoping, on some level, to prevent.
What do you want from the bond. Though Vincent had been glancing out at the river, when Sephiroth again finally brings up the potential for future madness, he turns his entire focus on the silver haired youth. The request is not entirely met with surprise. Yet there's a brief hesitation, to think over what those words would mean. Vincent is far from reluctant. However there are a great many factors to consider. Finding the truth of that madness and there are plenty of elements in Folkmore alien to their world that could trigger it.
"I will do everything I can to find out why." Through the bond, though all his skills as a former Turk. And whatever help he can gather from others. There's then a slow nod, though he offers a quiet question.
"If Thirteen is the case. Or if she brings Lucrecia here... Gast or Hojo." Well at least two of those Vincent would have no problem throwing to the silver wolf god. The third.... "Should I bring them as well?"
And... well, if he's bringing them, he'll already be there won't he?
no subject
Date: 2024-09-17 01:48 am (UTC)He was very focused in that particular wish for retaliation. If someone went out of their way to provoke it.. "I don't get the impression even trying to destroy the world that I become any less intelligent, or truly feral. But positive punishment may be an effective deterrent even if I am aware it's what's happening, to at least prevent rampant havoc." Emotional influence could be a powerful thing. If he found pleasure in the kill, souring that joy would make it less appealing.
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Date: 2024-09-17 02:23 am (UTC)"Not that I'm aware." Frankly, Vincent wasn't sure if the arrogance had changed. What Sephiroth had been brought up believing... seeing out of those around him compared to his own power... "I can't make any promises that I'd succeed if it turned out to be Thirteen in the end. But that wouldn't stop me from trying. Anyone else... I'll manage somehow."
The former Turk's eyes are now opened fully. He's studying Sephiroth carefully as he remarks about the use of emotional manipulations. "That.... you want me to use the bond to manipulate your reaction to certain actions?" The question is probably as neutrally spoken as Vincent can manage and yet it's still clear he's not comfortable with the idea.
"That... did Hojo... the scientists, use that on you? That how you learned it?" Very clear.
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Date: 2024-09-17 02:35 am (UTC)"You won't be able to manage direct control, like I can my eventual puppets. That wouldn't be 'supporting a legend', and presumably is beyond the reach of such a tether." Messing with his emotions was not ideal but could be used to try to curb the worst.
Would he even take pleasure in slaughtering people without any chance of fighting him? Or was it merely the satisfaction an exterminator feels on eradicating a nest of vermin?
The idea that Hojo or the others COULD do such a thing to him earns a blank look. "No, of course not." They did, but through different means than what he's intending here. Enough reinforcement for what they wanted, and he no longer resisted. He hadn't needed to be bound to a table since he was young, no matter what they did. "It's standard procedure for unruly specimens when positive reinforcement fails. I've watched it countless times. SOme species simply don't react to anything else."
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Date: 2024-09-17 02:31 pm (UTC)It also hurts because Vincent knows he's probably capable of setting aside the morals and doing it.
"I'm not thrilled that you're asking me to do something that even the scientists at the company or Hojo might not have done," Vincent finally begins. There's a trace of bitterness; but he could be forgiven for not liking it in that context. As to the way the teen devalues his worth as a person and simply implies Vincent should just regard it as standard procedure for an unruly specimen. But he won't bring that up now.
"But... explain further how you want it used. I don't want anything to hinder what you have to do when you return to your time." So far, Sephiroth has only generalized. So the former Turk can't really be blamed for wanting specifics under those conditions.
Right?
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Date: 2024-09-17 04:58 pm (UTC)Dog and boy share a brief look. "You ... offered to do just that a few minutes ago." His tone is slow and cautious, unsure suddenly what the right answer is supposed to be. Was he supposed to interpret the mention of Familiars calming Legend emotions, and exerting influence over them, in some other way?
Was he supposed to refuse, and be insulted at its implication? "Was this a test?" He must have failed it.
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Date: 2024-09-17 06:30 pm (UTC)"Damn it." ...What? While Vincent doesn't quite drag his hand down his face - for obvious reasons- it's slowly pulled downward and away to drop to his knees again. He exhales to steady himself and turns to face the pair.
"I did. But this wasn't a test. What you just said makes me realize it was no better than how the scientists treated you your entire life." His expression shows muted regret and resignation; probably going a lot deeper.
"Worse, because I know you accept so many things without question because of that abuse. Even if it sounds reasonable, the rational thing to do."
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Date: 2024-09-17 06:50 pm (UTC)"...It is the reasonable thing to do, or you wouldn't have suggested it to begin with." How much of the objection he really understands is questionable.
But he does know an offer was made, and it was sensible at the time. Still was, even after a review of it. "If it was ... some form of abuse, which I question, a tool is a tool, no matter who's using it before you do. You can't tame a monster with friendship and love." They can however be occasionally beaten into submission!
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Date: 2024-09-17 11:22 pm (UTC)Probably, since it was balancing out something that was being forced on Sephiroth. But it had opened a door.
"The part that wasn't right, no matter how it sounds, was to suggest it be used for anything else. To control your emotions or your actions based on those emotions. You've been conditioned to believe that. To think it's normal."
Though... it's true Vincent is unclear if even that would be something that gets through to the teen. So... he proffers a question.
"...If you don't believe me, then... when you were experiencing the Trial in the fog, what stopped you from helping Hojo's victim?
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Date: 2024-09-17 11:55 pm (UTC)It sounds like it's merely a puzzled question, and there's no way to be sure if it is just confusion or if something uglier undercurrents it just by looking at Sephiroth.
But there's a slow lash of the long black tentacle between the guard hound's stiff shoulders, back and forth like a pendulum, and a deep, reverberating gutteral snarl at Vincent's final question as Sephiroth jerks himself back to his feet in one too-fast motion.
"If you don't actually want to help then just say so and stop playing with me. This isn't a game." The calming, euphoric effects of this stretch of river only go so far against the volatile temperament of a teenager as he turns on one booted heel and stalks away - not closer to Exile at least.
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Date: 2024-09-18 12:16 am (UTC)"Sephiroth. I'm trying to help you!" He might not be directly behind the boy but the former Turk's voice is clear and holds enough emphasis to suggest the commanding exclamation. "I'm asking because it's not a game. Whatever happened during that Trial... what do you think will happen when you go back home and try to kill Hojo?"
He'll stop if the teen stops. But he can't afford to let Sephiroth too get too far away.
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