Cloud watches Vincent, gauging his reaction, but there's neither defensiveness nor apology in Cloud's demeanor.
"I remembered those three questions you told me to keep asking myself. And I did. What really decided it for me was finally getting a clear answer to the second one - whether it was really me, or the Cloud who was here before. Found out that Cloud was actually in a relationship with Sephiroth when he was here, but Sephiroth doesn't feel like it was real, because it started in a breach and just...carried over."
He has no idea whether Vincent knows about the whole...Justine thing. But it might be notable anyway that this conversation is happening not long after another breach.
"That other me was from some other version of events, too, so that didn't help. He considers me the 'real' Cloud because we're from the same timeline, and this all happened without any weird breach shit."
What Sephiroth actually said was a lot more heartfelt than that, but Vincent doesn't need - or want, probably - those details.
Vincent is not aware of the Breach's aftermath and its affect on Cloud, though it likely would have remained unspoken even if he had.
If only because the blond's regard of Sephiroth, not Justine would have made it clear this was no issue of muddled memory. Even if the Breach was mentioned and the distinction that was made. This part was after all an effect of Sephiroth's perception. One that had felt... false.
Though Vincent's eyes do narrow, it seems more a reflection of thought and focus than concern. And after a time following Cloud's conclusion, the former Turk does have an answer. Though it may get a mixed reception.
"I won't pretend I don't have concerns. But ultimately it's your choice who you decide to love. What I think is irrelevant at best. And hypocritical if I thought otherwise."
Though he closes his eyes a moment, they're soon open again and still focused on Cloud.
"I suspected this was coming when we talked on the boat." Rhododactylos. When Vincent was shaken as Cloud said Sephiroth 'pulls him back, saves him'. "But... thanks for telling me."
It's no surprise to Cloud that Vincent still has concerns. He figures that's just always going to be the case, at least until Sephiroth somehow proves to Vincent once and for all that he can be trusted - and frankly, Sephiroth's not good at that, because he doesn't bother to try. It's fine. Cloud can live with that.
The word 'love' gets just a brief moment of glancing elsewhere self-consciously.
He nods at the thanks. "I told Aerith, too, and Zack." He might tell Angeal, maybe, but he hasn't decided yet. "Figured...after everything, you'd all want to know." A pause, and then with a wry little smile, "Might tell Yunlan, too, because I doubt Sephiroth will bother."
He glances aside again. "Back then, on the boat, I really didn't know what I wanted. Not like I hadn't considered it, obviously, but...mm. Wasn't until I talked to Zack that I thought, maybe what I felt...could be a good thing."
Vincent tilts his head to the side. "Your choice. But I think you should tell Angeal. For the same reason you'll be telling Zhao Yunlan."
Because Sephiroth might not bother.
"And Nanaki." Maybe for the same reason Cloud was telling Vincent. The former Turk falls silent again, thinking upon what the blond has said regarding his choice. At the boat he didn't really know... Vincent wouldn't deny that. He understands.
And yet, the signs had been there even then; that this was going to be one of the most likely outcomes if matters continued as they were. When Vincent speaks again, it is with the heavy, slow pace of one speaking from the soul. Of memories that weren't all good. Ones hard to speak aloud.
"...Lucrecia once said to me, 'Sometimes, I get so involved in my research, I lose myself.'." As it always does when he speaks of the woman he loves, the man's voice softens with emotion. Even when that emotion is laced regret. Vincent avoids Cloud's gaze.
"She also said, 'When that happens though, you always come to my rescue.'" He did. But... he didn't. It hurts to know that there was more he could have done to ease her hidden pain. The man closes his eyes and lowers his features until near all are hidden by the collar of his cloak. And yet he continues in a way, to fulfill that promise he made on the boat in Rhododactylos.
"Lucrecia... found that in me. Though... I failed to recognize there was something more I could have done in the end."
"Hm." Cloud nods. Angeal and Nanaki - both make sense. He doesn't love the idea of having to "report" to everyone he knows about his relationships, but he supposes in this case it's the fair thing to do, even if just to set expectations.
He tilts his head slightly as Vincent goes on. At first, it seems like a bit of a non sequitur, but the connection clicks in Cloud's mind quickly. He is a little surprised that Vincent is following through on that promise, but pleasantly so. For just this moment, it feels like it used to - like they're not just friends but confidants, equals, and that he's someone Vincent can trust with his own feelings. It helps confirm that he's doing the right thing, bringing these developments to Vincent, even if this doesn't last.
"So that's why." Why Vincent had been so stunned. Cloud watches him hide in his cowl the way he always used to and grows thoughtful. "And...you want to make sure Sephiroth doesn't make the same mistakes you did. Right?"
Though most of his expression is now hidden, Vincent's eyes are not. Ruby, lightly glowing in the shadows cast by his hair and clothes and perhaps the environment they're in. They focus on Cloud in a long moment of silence. A sigh follows; it is resigned in a way that suggests he feels the blond won't like what he hears. But Vincent will be honest.
"...I'm worried about you. I won't deny Sephiroth has changed since coming to the Barge. In some ways, it seems more that he's learned the limits of his confinement. Remains to be seen what would happen if he was truly released."
And that doesn't include the Narrenschiff incident. That was just another type of prison.
"I was just blind to Lucrecia's pain. Sephiroth... call it humanity. Or just empathy. I'm not convinced he comprehends it. At least, beyond his own desires. Time will tell if he ever is."
Cloud knows what that sigh means, but he's ready to hear it, whatever it is. He feels more sure of himself right now than he has in a long time.
I'm worried about you. Well, what else is new? But this time, at least, Cloud doesn't feel like he's done anything to warrant it. He listens to what Vincent has to say. His head tilts.
"But isn't that true of all inmates? We can't know how things will go when we leave. All anybody here can do is trust the Admiral's judgment. I know Sephiroth will graduate - I'm not going anywhere until he does. So when that happens, you gotta decide whether you trust the Barge to work like it's supposed to, or not." An unconscious echo of what Vincent himself is thinking, in a way.
Then, thoughtfully, Cloud says, "You should talk to him. I've seen empathy in him. Humanity. And...he's far from blind to my pain. But you don't have to just take my word for it. Maybe your opinion'll change and maybe it won't, but either way, go talk to him and gauge for yourself."
"Yes." It's true of all inmates. Whatever warrants the change that causes graduation will one day free them to be returned and to life on top of that.
To face everything in the place they return to, unfettered. Vincent doesn't look guilty or apologetic; he hadn't forgotten that in his earlier statement.
"Change is not always about becoming a good person."
If it were, Cloud would have graduated the moment he stepped foot on the Barge. There is... another sigh. But it's not as heavy as the first.
"That's why I said it wasn't the same as being blind like I was. I'll talk to him again."
Though it's brusque it's not dismissive, nor walled off; at least to people that understand Vincent as well as Cloud does. If he says he'll do it, he will do so properly.
"After everything...don't think I believe there's really any such thing as a 'good person' or a 'bad person' anymore. In the moment, people can choose to hurt each other or not. They can choose kindness or not. Only one person I know who I'm pretty sure never once chose kindness in his life, and it ain't Sephiroth. It's Hojo." The name is dripping with contempt.
Cloud nods his appreciation when Vincent agrees to talk to Sephiroth again. "Thanks." There's a familiar sort of pause, the kind that usually precedes Cloud ending a conversation because he has nothing else he wants to say. But then he decides to try something different this time, even if it is with his usual averted gaze.
"...it...means a lot, Vincent. That you're willing to do this. Even if you're no less worried afterward, at least...you trust me enough to give it a shot."
Maybe Sephiroth will talk about it, but that isn't the same as reporting back with his personal thoughts. Though Cloud's gaze is averted, Vincent's is upon the blond, studying him before finally responding to the gratitude.
"Mm." Acknowledgement. "If you love him, I'm not saying that's wrong. Complicates things, but... hm."
He leaves that particular statement there, simply because... well, it and the rest of what he could say is obvious to everyone.
"I want you to find happiness. Just... understand I'm not looking for a way to say 'I told you so'. If... I step in."
It's all that tricky friendship thing. And... not wanting to regret letting things be because of 'if they're happy...' again.
There's a pause, as he considers how to bring up the second thing. Braces himself for this feeling of easy friendship to vanish as soon as it came. But he's not backing out now.
"So, the other thing I wanted to tell you...a while back, way before I ever got here, some weird flood happened and Sephiroth...had the Admiral give him the black materia. He never used it. He didn't even hold onto it - he had John put it in some kind of uh, dimensional pocket or something. But then, on my birthday...he gave it to me."
The shift is not as subtle as it could be; the way Vincent's manner changes. He's calm but as Cloud speaks again there's probably an undercurrent that causes him to focus. Something which becomes more intense and brow furrows. There's a way the visible muscles shift that suggest the tall gunman's lips have pressed into a line.
"Who else knows?" He'll handle the idea that it was kept around, that Sephiroth had given it as a birthday gift and the months that implied later. Right now one thing at a time.
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no subject
Cloud watches Vincent, gauging his reaction, but there's neither defensiveness nor apology in Cloud's demeanor.
"I remembered those three questions you told me to keep asking myself. And I did. What really decided it for me was finally getting a clear answer to the second one - whether it was really me, or the Cloud who was here before. Found out that Cloud was actually in a relationship with Sephiroth when he was here, but Sephiroth doesn't feel like it was real, because it started in a breach and just...carried over."
He has no idea whether Vincent knows about the whole...Justine thing. But it might be notable anyway that this conversation is happening not long after another breach.
"That other me was from some other version of events, too, so that didn't help. He considers me the 'real' Cloud because we're from the same timeline, and this all happened without any weird breach shit."
What Sephiroth actually said was a lot more heartfelt than that, but Vincent doesn't need - or want, probably - those details.
no subject
If only because the blond's regard of Sephiroth, not Justine would have made it clear this was no issue of muddled memory. Even if the Breach was mentioned and the distinction that was made. This part was after all an effect of Sephiroth's perception. One that had felt... false.
Though Vincent's eyes do narrow, it seems more a reflection of thought and focus than concern. And after a time following Cloud's conclusion, the former Turk does have an answer. Though it may get a mixed reception.
"I won't pretend I don't have concerns. But ultimately it's your choice who you decide to love. What I think is irrelevant at best. And hypocritical if I thought otherwise."
Though he closes his eyes a moment, they're soon open again and still focused on Cloud.
"I suspected this was coming when we talked on the boat." Rhododactylos. When Vincent was shaken as Cloud said Sephiroth 'pulls him back, saves him'. "But... thanks for telling me."
no subject
The word 'love' gets just a brief moment of glancing elsewhere self-consciously.
He nods at the thanks. "I told Aerith, too, and Zack." He might tell Angeal, maybe, but he hasn't decided yet. "Figured...after everything, you'd all want to know." A pause, and then with a wry little smile, "Might tell Yunlan, too, because I doubt Sephiroth will bother."
He glances aside again. "Back then, on the boat, I really didn't know what I wanted. Not like I hadn't considered it, obviously, but...mm. Wasn't until I talked to Zack that I thought, maybe what I felt...could be a good thing."
no subject
Because Sephiroth might not bother.
"And Nanaki." Maybe for the same reason Cloud was telling Vincent. The former Turk falls silent again, thinking upon what the blond has said regarding his choice. At the boat he didn't really know... Vincent wouldn't deny that. He understands.
And yet, the signs had been there even then; that this was going to be one of the most likely outcomes if matters continued as they were. When Vincent speaks again, it is with the heavy, slow pace of one speaking from the soul. Of memories that weren't all good. Ones hard to speak aloud.
"...Lucrecia once said to me, 'Sometimes, I get so involved in my research, I lose myself.'." As it always does when he speaks of the woman he loves, the man's voice softens with emotion. Even when that emotion is laced regret. Vincent avoids Cloud's gaze.
"She also said, 'When that happens though, you always come to my rescue.'" He did. But... he didn't. It hurts to know that there was more he could have done to ease her hidden pain. The man closes his eyes and lowers his features until near all are hidden by the collar of his cloak. And yet he continues in a way, to fulfill that promise he made on the boat in Rhododactylos.
"Lucrecia... found that in me. Though... I failed to recognize there was something more I could have done in the end."
no subject
He tilts his head slightly as Vincent goes on. At first, it seems like a bit of a non sequitur, but the connection clicks in Cloud's mind quickly. He is a little surprised that Vincent is following through on that promise, but pleasantly so. For just this moment, it feels like it used to - like they're not just friends but confidants, equals, and that he's someone Vincent can trust with his own feelings. It helps confirm that he's doing the right thing, bringing these developments to Vincent, even if this doesn't last.
"So that's why." Why Vincent had been so stunned. Cloud watches him hide in his cowl the way he always used to and grows thoughtful. "And...you want to make sure Sephiroth doesn't make the same mistakes you did. Right?"
no subject
"...I'm worried about you. I won't deny Sephiroth has changed since coming to the Barge. In some ways, it seems more that he's learned the limits of his confinement. Remains to be seen what would happen if he was truly released."
And that doesn't include the Narrenschiff incident. That was just another type of prison.
"I was just blind to Lucrecia's pain. Sephiroth... call it humanity. Or just empathy. I'm not convinced he comprehends it. At least, beyond his own desires. Time will tell if he ever is."
That's what the Barge is for, isn't it? Change.
no subject
I'm worried about you. Well, what else is new? But this time, at least, Cloud doesn't feel like he's done anything to warrant it. He listens to what Vincent has to say. His head tilts.
"But isn't that true of all inmates? We can't know how things will go when we leave. All anybody here can do is trust the Admiral's judgment. I know Sephiroth will graduate - I'm not going anywhere until he does. So when that happens, you gotta decide whether you trust the Barge to work like it's supposed to, or not." An unconscious echo of what Vincent himself is thinking, in a way.
Then, thoughtfully, Cloud says, "You should talk to him. I've seen empathy in him. Humanity. And...he's far from blind to my pain. But you don't have to just take my word for it. Maybe your opinion'll change and maybe it won't, but either way, go talk to him and gauge for yourself."
no subject
To face everything in the place they return to, unfettered. Vincent doesn't look guilty or apologetic; he hadn't forgotten that in his earlier statement.
"Change is not always about becoming a good person."
If it were, Cloud would have graduated the moment he stepped foot on the Barge. There is... another sigh. But it's not as heavy as the first.
"That's why I said it wasn't the same as being blind like I was. I'll talk to him again."
Though it's brusque it's not dismissive, nor walled off; at least to people that understand Vincent as well as Cloud does. If he says he'll do it, he will do so properly.
no subject
Cloud nods his appreciation when Vincent agrees to talk to Sephiroth again. "Thanks." There's a familiar sort of pause, the kind that usually precedes Cloud ending a conversation because he has nothing else he wants to say. But then he decides to try something different this time, even if it is with his usual averted gaze.
"...it...means a lot, Vincent. That you're willing to do this. Even if you're no less worried afterward, at least...you trust me enough to give it a shot."
no subject
Maybe Sephiroth will talk about it, but that isn't the same as reporting back with his personal thoughts. Though Cloud's gaze is averted, Vincent's is upon the blond, studying him before finally responding to the gratitude.
"Mm." Acknowledgement. "If you love him, I'm not saying that's wrong. Complicates things, but... hm."
He leaves that particular statement there, simply because... well, it and the rest of what he could say is obvious to everyone.
"I want you to find happiness. Just... understand I'm not looking for a way to say 'I told you so'. If... I step in."
It's all that tricky friendship thing. And... not wanting to regret letting things be because of 'if they're happy...' again.
no subject
There's a pause, as he considers how to bring up the second thing. Braces himself for this feeling of easy friendship to vanish as soon as it came. But he's not backing out now.
"So, the other thing I wanted to tell you...a while back, way before I ever got here, some weird flood happened and Sephiroth...had the Admiral give him the black materia. He never used it. He didn't even hold onto it - he had John put it in some kind of uh, dimensional pocket or something. But then, on my birthday...he gave it to me."
no subject
"Who else knows?" He'll handle the idea that it was kept around, that Sephiroth had given it as a birthday gift and the months that implied later. Right now one thing at a time.