Precisely. I am also led to believe through a history of the Barge that the Admiral does not take request at certain times: when he is busy with far more important matters or when the ship is in dire straits. So this would not only be a solution to a handling of recycling and waste reduction, but it would allow for inmate requests for small items with warden supervision, as well as a place for..
I hesitate to classify any request as petty, but I personally do not wish to bother our admiral over a matter of a set of screw replacements or a new coil of wiring before port.
[ They aren't petty in the sense of having no other solution. But it'll be a good option to have regardless. ]
Recycled materials will be wood, metal and plastics based, I'm assuming? A supply sourced from the Barge alone probably won't result in a stockpile. If your fabrication device is finalized, look into suggesting organized collection of scrap and salvage from our stops.
[ There is a pause. He snorts in what sounds like wry amusement. ]
Hrmph. As long as it doesn't distrupt the locals.
[ Leave it to some people on the ship to push the borders between 'salvage' and 'theft or vandalism'. ]
One last one; a personal one, if you would indulge me.
My warden believes that my graduation lies in making me sociable, likable, and politically astute. He has tasked me to ask others here about whether they find me strange and the reasoning behind it, so that I can course-correct.
We have been at odds before over matters of safety and authority, but I do not know if that conflates to personal animosity.
Sociable and likeable are two things Vincent is rarely ever accused of being. Well the latter, after people get to know him. But... yeah. Strange is a good way of describing it. After a moment's pause, he answers. ]
I suppose I have nothing against you personally. I'm under the impression you're more aware than you let on about your shortcomings and use that to your advantage.
[ That is to say, Thrawn may have some real struggles in understanding how his actions impact others. But Vincent believes that the Chiss is likely self-aware enough that he can use it to forward his goals as well. ]
Don't misunderstand. I don't mean to say you have no right to protest or be upset. I see you as someone who has been the only authority and now you aren't. You seek to reclaim that, if I'm not mistaken. Social skills, being likeable. These may help. But I doubt it's the lesson you need first.
[ There's another soft hrmph of noise, close to a chuckle. ]
Well, that's just my opinion. Your warden probably knows you better. And he has your file.
Hm, hard to say. Humility, maybe. How to trust more. You have a strong sense of pride, Thrawn. Few people like being wrong. Many can't handle it. I've seen that lead to problems for you. The outrage you feel when you think someone questions your authority or doesn't treat you with respect. You don't just seek to teach lessons. You aim to punish or circumvent to get what you want anyway.
[ It's just audio so Vincent's shrug can't be seen. Maybe there's the sound of shifting fabric when he moves but... ]
At best, that 'pride' regularly leaves you incapable of trusting anyone else knowing what's best for the Barge, including its Admiral. At worst, it leads to actions that fuel resentment and mistrust in others. Hrmph. Both might promote change in a way. But not necessarily the one you are looking for.
[ Vincent lets out a sigh. ]
...Try thinking of it as an opportunity to focus on yourself.
I believe you have misjudged me, and my intentions.
You are correct. I have immeasurable amounts of pride, and I understand that is both a trait of my species and a character flaw.
But I prefer when those around me asks questions, provided those questions are asked with the same respect I would give in return. How else are we to learn from each other?
I believe you think of me as an ultra-authoritarian. And perhaps I do work to circumnavigate rules that make little sense and are a detriment.
But I believe we are all competent, capable people who want what's best for the ship as a whole: all that we disagree on are the methods by which to go about it.
It's always possible. But I'm not sure I have misjudged as much as you think.
[ Vincent won't deny he may get things wrong at least. His voice continues, offering a mild tone while further explaining. ]
Even people with every good intention can struggle like you're doing now.
Before you came here, you could have been a despot and tyrant. Or wanted to save everyone through rational and efficient methods. I'm only interested in knowing the answer to that up to a point. If I'm honest, I suspect something like the latter, though flexible isn't your strong point.
[ Someone else must have handled diplomacy. ]
You struggle to let go of that sense of control when you see something that doesn't fit the rules you think are best. You speak of ignoring rules that make little sense or are a 'detriment'. But that was a decision you made on your own more often than not.
Well, we all want respect and deserve it. But the level of expectations can be wildly different between people. You're also only mentioning questions asked of you. What about how you react to answers you receive? What do you do when you perceive something as disrespectful, detrimental, or foolish?
I know you asked the Admiral about the defenses and rally stations and were rejected before you put forth the suggestion. How much did you ask him to elaborate on how his reality works to compare with your research? Or was it the same as you gave me when I started questioning your suggestion and you immediately tried to close the conversation down? It only continued because I pursued you.
Those are not signs of equal respect or learning from one another, Thrawn. It's not present every time. But it's still more often than not. You're invested in teaching if it's your plan or your conclusions. But you balk a lot when a dissenting voice rises that you can't always reason away.
[He smiles, a little sadly. Someone did indeed handle diplomacy, as far back as Thrawn even neared the topic of politics]
It is not my place to question the Admiral's decision-making. I believe when he says no, he means it; attempting to circumvent his final decision will only result in a worse relationship going forward.
What do I do when I am disrespected? I suppose it would amount to the situation and consequences at hand. I am much more likely to ignore something when it does not result in loss of life of those I consider under my charge.
As I have no one, now, I suppose I will..move on, as it were, to other things. You and several other wardens have spoken that you would prefer I not aid in defense or weaponry. I will abandon any further pursuits unless asked directly.
There's nothing wrong with questions, even of the Admiral's motives or decisions. I can't speak for the other wardens. For me, it's that you're hard to trust. Hrmph. Well, that's the downside of seeking forgiveness over permission.
[ It really doesn't engender faith when subjects of weapons are what was actively pursued despite being denied. Not that Vincent doesn't recognize there are times when 'forgiveness' is the better option. ]
There's nothing wrong with your suggestions either. The knowledge you have is useful. Don't hold it back, even if it's not a good idea to try and reproduce it.
[ The last bit is spoken with dry humor. ]
Anyway, you seemed to learn something from this incident. I'll look forward to seeing what that means for your future.
[ ...Whether or not that earns back the trust lost or comes out to be more... interesting developments. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Precisely. I am also led to believe through a history of the Barge that the Admiral does not take request at certain times: when he is busy with far more important matters or when the ship is in dire straits. So this would not only be a solution to a handling of recycling and waste reduction, but it would allow for inmate requests for small items with warden supervision, as well as a place for..
I hesitate to classify any request as petty, but I personally do not wish to bother our admiral over a matter of a set of screw replacements or a new coil of wiring before port.
no subject
[ They aren't petty in the sense of having no other solution. But it'll be a good option to have regardless. ]
Recycled materials will be wood, metal and plastics based, I'm assuming? A supply sourced from the Barge alone probably won't result in a stockpile. If your fabrication device is finalized, look into suggesting organized collection of scrap and salvage from our stops.
[ There is a pause. He snorts in what sounds like wry amusement. ]
Hrmph. As long as it doesn't distrupt the locals.
[ Leave it to some people on the ship to push the borders between 'salvage' and 'theft or vandalism'. ]
no subject
[that was the word he was looking for! Thrawn quirks a small smile]
Indeed. Were we to stop at any repeated port, no doubt our reputation would precede us.
no subject
[ Thrawn had mentioned 'several', though it'd not been clear if they were all related to the fabrication project. ]
no subject
My warden believes that my graduation lies in making me sociable, likable, and politically astute. He has tasked me to ask others here about whether they find me strange and the reasoning behind it, so that I can course-correct.
We have been at odds before over matters of safety and authority, but I do not know if that conflates to personal animosity.
no subject
[ He'll indulge.
Sociable and likeable are two things Vincent is rarely ever accused of being. Well the latter, after people get to know him. But... yeah. Strange is a good way of describing it. After a moment's pause, he answers. ]
I suppose I have nothing against you personally. I'm under the impression you're more aware than you let on about your shortcomings and use that to your advantage.
[ That is to say, Thrawn may have some real struggles in understanding how his actions impact others. But Vincent believes that the Chiss is likely self-aware enough that he can use it to forward his goals as well. ]
Don't misunderstand. I don't mean to say you have no right to protest or be upset. I see you as someone who has been the only authority and now you aren't. You seek to reclaim that, if I'm not mistaken. Social skills, being likeable. These may help. But I doubt it's the lesson you need first.
[ There's another soft hrmph of noise, close to a chuckle. ]
Well, that's just my opinion. Your warden probably knows you better. And he has your file.
no subject
You are not wrong, in most respects.
What would you say is the lesson I need first?
no subject
[ It's just audio so Vincent's shrug can't be seen. Maybe there's the sound of shifting fabric when he moves but... ]
At best, that 'pride' regularly leaves you incapable of trusting anyone else knowing what's best for the Barge, including its Admiral. At worst, it leads to actions that fuel resentment and mistrust in others. Hrmph. Both might promote change in a way. But not necessarily the one you are looking for.
[ Vincent lets out a sigh. ]
...Try thinking of it as an opportunity to focus on yourself.
[ Rather than what's best for others. ]
no subject
You are correct. I have immeasurable amounts of pride, and I understand that is both a trait of my species and a character flaw.
But I prefer when those around me asks questions, provided those questions are asked with the same respect I would give in return. How else are we to learn from each other?
I believe you think of me as an ultra-authoritarian. And perhaps I do work to circumnavigate rules that make little sense and are a detriment.
But I believe we are all competent, capable people who want what's best for the ship as a whole: all that we disagree on are the methods by which to go about it.
no subject
[ Vincent won't deny he may get things wrong at least. His voice continues, offering a mild tone while further explaining. ]
Even people with every good intention can struggle like you're doing now.
Before you came here, you could have been a despot and tyrant. Or wanted to save everyone through rational and efficient methods. I'm only interested in knowing the answer to that up to a point. If I'm honest, I suspect something like the latter, though flexible isn't your strong point.
[ Someone else must have handled diplomacy. ]
You struggle to let go of that sense of control when you see something that doesn't fit the rules you think are best. You speak of ignoring rules that make little sense or are a 'detriment'. But that was a decision you made on your own more often than not.
Well, we all want respect and deserve it. But the level of expectations can be wildly different between people. You're also only mentioning questions asked of you. What about how you react to answers you receive? What do you do when you perceive something as disrespectful, detrimental, or foolish?
I know you asked the Admiral about the defenses and rally stations and were rejected before you put forth the suggestion. How much did you ask him to elaborate on how his reality works to compare with your research? Or was it the same as you gave me when I started questioning your suggestion and you immediately tried to close the conversation down? It only continued because I pursued you.
Those are not signs of equal respect or learning from one another, Thrawn. It's not present every time. But it's still more often than not. You're invested in teaching if it's your plan or your conclusions. But you balk a lot when a dissenting voice rises that you can't always reason away.
no subject
It is not my place to question the Admiral's decision-making. I believe when he says no, he means it; attempting to circumvent his final decision will only result in a worse relationship going forward.
What do I do when I am disrespected? I suppose it would amount to the situation and consequences at hand. I am much more likely to ignore something when it does not result in loss of life of those I consider under my charge.
As I have no one, now, I suppose I will..move on, as it were, to other things. You and several other wardens have spoken that you would prefer I not aid in defense or weaponry. I will abandon any further pursuits unless asked directly.
no subject
There's nothing wrong with questions, even of the Admiral's motives or decisions. I can't speak for the other wardens. For me, it's that you're hard to trust. Hrmph. Well, that's the downside of seeking forgiveness over permission.
[ It really doesn't engender faith when subjects of weapons are what was actively pursued despite being denied. Not that Vincent doesn't recognize there are times when 'forgiveness' is the better option. ]
There's nothing wrong with your suggestions either. The knowledge you have is useful. Don't hold it back, even if it's not a good idea to try and reproduce it.
[ The last bit is spoken with dry humor. ]
Anyway, you seemed to learn something from this incident. I'll look forward to seeing what that means for your future.
[ ...Whether or not that earns back the trust lost or comes out to be more... interesting developments. ]
no subject
[a small gesture; hence, acting without permission. He has been biased against for so long that it's second nature to prove himself first]
Some will never trust me. I do not need it to graduate.
Indeed, Warden Valentine: I have learned much. Thank you for your insight.
no subject
[ With that, he ends the call. ]